Heh, I think the time my friend’s party (I was there) got raided by the police on the 4th of July beats all of your stories.

Isn’t it illegal to pass on the left any way? Why don’t you just contest it?

I can search through my fathers rolladex of attorneys if you want. Then again our BR boy steve seems to be pretty good about advice.

Both not as good as “Hand over the monkey or I’ll feed your left nut to the bearded lady.”

You can come and try to kick Canada’s ass, I’ll meet you at the boarder! This coming from a country that when they have no one else to fight has a civil war.

You are missing a group, which is quite large recently — the group that is apathetic to the nation, that cares very little about what is going on so long as it doesn’t cost them any money; the group that complains about taxes, policy, the stupidity of the president and the insanity of the economy, yet do nothing to fix it; the group that grows each year more and more digusted by the government each year and yet refuses to vote.

They, more than either of your first two groups will destroy the good qualities of our democratic system. In fact, I don’t think I’ve met anyone over the age of 18, other than people who are insane, who fit into your second group.

Let’s hope the State of the Union isn’t too depressing.

Thanks for starting this thread.
I thought it might be useful to get a dictionary definition of patriotism here. This is from Merriam-Webster’s online Dictionary :

Main Entry: pa·tri·ot·ism
Pronunciation: ‘pA-trE-&-”ti-z&m, chiefly British ‘pa-
Function: noun
Date: circa 1726
: love for or devotion to one’s country.

As patriotism is defined, anyone who is from any country could be a patriot. Most countries have a history and a cultural and ethnic identity that is relatively exculsive to that particular country.

To be an American Patriot is unique. America is actually inclusive of all peoples… hence: E Pluribus Unum. ‘From many people’s, One’ In my mind, America is the place on Earth where ALL PEOPLE are created equal. We honor ALL religions, ALL (previous) nationalites, ALL ethnicities, people from ALL cultural origins and diversity. Not so for other countries or nations. I say that America represents and is made up of ALL PEOPLE everywhere. When America is under threat, humanity itself is under threat.

What makes America unique is our founding documents. We are a nation of laws. Those laws have no respect for an individual’s uniqueness. ALL PEOPLE are viewed as equal. That is why the symbol of Justice is blindfolded.

Now, we know that the Ideals of America as described in the Declaration of Independence and The Bill of Rights and The Constitution are ideals that have never been fully realized, as you point out previously. I quite agree with you. America is a process.

It occurs to me that at every turn America has distributed power away from a centralized location and diffused it into the population, THE PEOPLE. I believe that the civil rights movement is a perfect example of America working itself out as a process. Dr. Martin Luther King and his followers were doing nothing other than demanding that the words written on the documents (law) were followed in actual practice. He and his followers had the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Fourteenth Amendment to point to. They pointed out the prevailing hypocrisy of the day and demanded that America behave in actual practice according to the words that were in fact the Law of the Land.

None of this is easy. I would assert that the same thing occured with the Women’s movement. It was not as volatile because, after all… 50% (or more) of the population is female. The point is that our laws distribute power outward from a centralized location to the People… which is in keeping with the words written in our founding documents and with the intention of those who wrote them.

The Constitution and a ‘government of the people, by the people, and for the people’ has been under attack since it began. Jefferson said that the price of Liberty is eternal vigilance. Vigilance of what? Vigilance that the natural human tendency to gather power unto itself alone, be observed for what it is. Humans will always want more. Powerful humans will want more power. That is how dictators happen.

The systems of Monarchy and Feudalism and Facism and Totalitarianism or any other system where what goes on in daily life is decided by a small group of ‘elite’ or a single powerful person is what America was invented to prevent.

There is wisdom in everyone. The single most unique thing about America is that it is a structure that aims to not allow any one person nor any one group to attain absolute authority or power. America is not perfect. But, I believe it is the VERY BEST at promoting Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness for everyone. If America were to suddenly disappear… imagine what the world would be. Frightening isn’t it.

We have more to do to and we it’s citizens and American Patriots must remain ‘eternally vigilant’. When America began, the people mostly were farmers or merchants, small business people or workers a handful of scholars. There were no major multi-national corporations. There was no instantaneous news distribution. There had not been billions of dollars spent on ‘consumer behavior’. You and I were not thought of as ‘market segments’. There were no people whose career involved manipulating the opinion or behavior of people. There was no internal combusion engines. There was no elecrical distribution systems. There was no petroleum economy that is necessary to keep those cars and trucks and planes and electical plants going. There were not millions of miles of paves highways. There was no centralized agribiz. There was no standing military. There was no ‘military industrial complex’ that Dwight David Eisenhower, five-star general, and president of the United States warned American Patriots about in his farewell address.

Every American who serves in the Armed Forces, or as a Police officer or as a Representative of Government swears an Oath of Office. In this oath they swear to protect (with their lives), defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States. They do not swear an oath of allegience to a person, a party, or to an administration. They swear an Oath to defend the Principles contained in the Constitution. TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTISM is founded on the ideals expressed in our original documents. The Constitution is a living document. It lives and breathes with the times. This is seen in the amendments.

Things were simpler when the founders took the bold step, never before done anywhere, of inventing a system of government designed to prevent dictatorship, despotism, totalitarianism and to promote Freedom and Justice for ALL PEOPLE. We The People have a mandate from those who invented America to exercise our rights and keep the whole thing alive. I beleive that this involves exercising our Constitutionally guaranteed rights. Writing in this thread is an exercise of those rights. I encourage ALL CITIZENS and American Patriots to learn all they can about THIER GOVERNMENT. If people don’t vote, they have no legitimate claim to gripe about anything. If people have not bothered to educate themselves about THEIR GOVERNMENT, they are not being vigilant.

I do not find it useful to devolve into ‘us’ and ‘them’ talk in America. I believe that ‘liberal/conservative’ rhetoric is counterproductive an damaging. I believe that whatever a persons political party is, has nothing whatever to do with whether they are an American Patriot or not. I believe we need more talk of knowing that ALL PEOPLE’s views are part of what makes our country great. I encourage everyone to read and re-read the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and to know the Constitution and why it was set up the way it was. I encourage everyone to know that YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT. When you hear of taxes being spent, know that someone is spending YOUR money. If you are a citizen of the United States and are over 18, you have a say in everything. You have REPRESENTATIVES in YOUR GOVERNMENT. The majority votes them into office. Whoever your representatives are, whether you voted for them or not are there to represent YOU. If you don’t agree with your representatives, tell them. If you want a different view that is more representative of your view… find a candidate, support him/her and vote for them. Don’t like anybody? Run yourself. Don’t like a party? Invent another one. That is your right AND your responsibility. You have the opportunity to have a ‘revolution’ at every election… peacefully. Speak, publish, meet with others, all First Amendment rights. That is how it works. If it starts to not be that way, American Patriots are mandated to bring it back. I believe we need to encourage everyone to remain vigilant and to execise our exisiting rights. America works if THE PEOPLE work it.

I encourage everyone to be vigilant. Educate yourself. Listen to EVERY point of view. Do not automatically shut yourself off from what might seem to be a point of view you may disagree with. Know that there may be some who disagree with you that are also TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOTS. Listen to them. Ask that they listen to you. This is THE PROCESS. This is exercising part of your First Amendment right. This is how we arrive at concensus. The more you learn, share it. Check out your sources. Don’t believe or disbelieve things you hear right away. Remember that some sources of information are specifically designed to sway you one way or another. This is how it is. Search for truth. Never stop. Don’t automatically assume you know the motivations of another. You might not know. A TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT is willing to listen to ALL points of view. Take it ALL in before you choose your viewpoint. Allow you viewpoint to be altered if you see something new. The PEOPLE are wise. No one has a monopoly on the truth.

Jefferson and Adams and Franklin believed in the essential wisdom of THE PEOPLE. (some more than others) The founders were historical scholars. Many read in Latin and Greek. They studied the first attempts at Democracy in Greece. They studied the Republic of Rome. They looked at what worked and what did not work. Rutledge learned of the Iroqois native American peoples and their verbally transmitted ‘constitution’. All these things went into the invention of our Constitution. This is our heritage. People who don’t bother to educate themselves or to listen to ALL points of view are cheating themselves. The free exchange of information and view is essential for America to live out it’s ideals and ultimate destiny.

In closing, The Statue of Liberty holds the torch of enlightenment in her elevated right hand. Under her left arm is a stone tablet inscribed with JULY 4th, symbolizing self-determining government, her left heel is RAISED from it’s sandal… indicating FORWARD motion. She is moving INTO the world. I do not appologize for wanting ALL PEOPLE in the world to have self-determining government in THEIR country. I do not feel that this is imperialism. What would the world look like if just the First Amendment rights were available to ALL PEOPLE everywhere? The current ugly truth is that in many countries people can not speak their minds and hearts without risking their lives. TRUE AMERICAN PARTRIOTS want ALL PEOPLE everywhere to live in peace and have the rights to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. How can we thwart and prevent dictatorship or totalitarianism or rule by a small ‘elite’? How can we preserve and expand Freedom and Liberty to ALL PEOPLE ? These are among the eternal questions for ALL AMERICAN PATRIOTS. I Love America.
Rik

see what happens when you write about patriotism? you attrack all the fanatics

Awesome essay so far underdog. I think it’s inspiring and I like to think I fall into the last group most of the time. However, I admittedly waver to the first group once in a while… but maybe that was just from lack of sex.

Yeah, I wanted the essay to be short so people would read it all. I don’t think it’s lack of sex though… I suffer from a severe lack of it myself.

I don’t think that to be a true patriot means that you have to be on marches and be an activist. It just means understanding what the country stands for and why certain things are happening or have happened. For my own part, I chose to serve my country. Whether or not this will put me in a position to ultimately bring about the positive changes that I would like to, I do not know. I hope so.

You’re dealing in a very idealistic world where everyone agrees that power belongs in the hands of the people. The problem is that not everyone does; including people in this nation. That’s fine, that’s their perogative and they’re guaranteed freedom to conduct themselves as they wish. You may not agree with their line of thinking, but all the idealism in the world won’t change them. Therefore, your thoughts, while noble, are not compatible with reality. In the end, you will just make yourself unhappy and frustrated in your attempt to convert those that do not wish to be converted. As for being divisive, how else to show people where they stand in relation to what I believe?

Because the minority that does support it controls the cash, controls the decision-making body. It’s the same reason we’re going to war against one country while another country poses more of a threat and breaks more of the “rules” for which we will be going to war.

Remember, “February is a short month.”

I remember when the patriots made it to the superbowl and blew it!

Thank you, once again, for the opportunity to express and share on the topic of The True Patriot.

It seems some think that somewhere in my previous comments was a ‘high and mighty’, ‘better than thou’, stance. I certainly am no more a True Patriot than millions of others…in word or deed. Please do not misinterpret my admiration of the Founders with besmirching any of your fine characters. I realize that times have indeed changed. I know that the problems (challenges) that each generation faces is unique to itself. I further understand that human nature remains essentially the same as it was two hundred or a thousand years ago. I understand that each country that exists has its own standards that have developed over the centuries. I understand the difference between a democracy and a democratic republic. I certainly agree that the Founders were indeed opportunists. I will go further and assert that the Founders were more intimately acquainted with the realities of human nature (as it exists everywhere, within all cultures, languages, geographies, races, ethnicities, and religious ideologies) than am I.
What makes the Founders and their gift to us… (our heritgage of written laws under which exists NO ELITE…) so extraordinary… is that so very much thought was paid to the facts and vagaries of human nature. The Constitution is an outline for a form of government (democratic republic) that is very explicit in it’s intent to diffuse power away from any elite. That the headlines of today… or any other time… might indicate that the Founders intent often remains unrealized… is evidence enough that it requires more than idealism to make it all work as intended. Jefferson was very clear on this. For a democratic republic to be effective, it requires an informed, interested, and participatory public. What was intended in the First Amendment (my assumption) is that the freedom of speech, press, and assembly, regardless of religious affiliation, would facilitate the public to avail themselves in freely participating in THEIR GOVERMENT. (a government by the consent of the governed)
I mean no harm, nor do I assume to know the habits of this readership, when I point out that much of modern life encourages people of today to aim at ease and comfort and, if anything makes it very easy for the ‘public’ to accept the status quo and to reject thinking too much. Television, film, magazines and much of modern media and advertising culture is rife with encouraging the public to be passive and dumb. This may be the result of extremely effective capitalism at work. If this is what the public chooses… then so be it. However, the Founders also made it clear that there is a public trust laid upon the holders of public office which makes those of high office responsible for encouraging and assiting the public in being properly and adequately informed… so as to be able to choose representatives wisely.
The Founders also wisely saw that even ‘the people’ could also have too much power. (that’s why they specifically intended it to be a democratic republic and not a pure democracy… (Jerry Springer’s guests and audiences also have the vote)) I believe that the seventeenth amendment altered the Founders’ well thought out intentions… and in a way that does not benefit our democratic republic in a positive way. This amendment occured during the administration of Woodrow Wilson… (the Federal Reserve system was also enacted during his tenure) Originally, United States Senators were elected by the body of each State’s house of representatives. What this did, was allow more local knowledge as to the character and leanings of the proposed US Senators… and by ‘representatives’ who were closer to ‘the people’. As it now is(as of the seventeenth amendment)… it takes lots of money to run a campaign for the U.S. Sentate. Special interest groups… political action committees (PACS), corporations… advertising and PR specialists to spin them… and ‘the people’ being ’sold’ candidates by the latest and greatest persuaders in the world. (roughly half of U.S. Senators are multi-millionaires, not bad, but not exactly close to the reality of ‘the people’ and therefore a bit out of touch) This is not what the Founders had in mind.
The point is simply this. The Founders had in mind that the Federal government was to be an affiliate/association of free and independent STATES. The United STATES of America… STATES that are UNITED under the principles stated in the Constitution. The Federal government was never intended to be the sole, nor ever the primary repostitory of authority. It was to oversee and ADMINISTER the association/affilation of the STATES as a UNITED body. (to one another and to the countries of the world)

The Constitution was written to prevent any one group from amassing power unto itself for any length of time (that’s the purpose of term limits). Is all this idealistic ? I think, far from it. I think the framework of our democratic republic (The Bill of Rights and The Constitution) is an amazing piece of brilliantly concieved work that remains flexible for all time and still is specific enough to thwart the natural tendencies of human nature (amassing power in a concentrated way). Why do I not agree that it is ‘idealistic’? Because it was written with the full knowledge of human nature in mind. Our American Democratic Republic is rarely, indeed, maybe never, perfect. Winston Churchill said of all the governments in the whole world… America was ‘the best of the worst’. If humans are ever to govern themselves… without dictators, or monarchs, or any other ELITE body, then I say Our, YOUR Democratic Republic… The United States of America is STILL mankind’s best hope of working towards that ideal. If it is not perfect… it is because humans are not perfect. If it lacks anywhere… I loudly assert it is because it’s citizens are not participating to the degree afforded and indeed… required of them.
I am not blameless in the abdication of responsibilty here. I do not point fingers at others without noticing that my finger also bends in my direction. For America to work fully and vibrantly we ALL need to encourage one another to express our views and to find representatives that most closely represent our views… America is the land of peaceful and nonviolent revolution. We have a chance at every election. Inform yourselves. Inform others. Participate. It’s YOUR government. That’s not idealism, nor is it bullcrap. It is the LAW OF THE LAND. The United States of America is a precious gift from wise and brave men and women who bought and paid for it with their lives to give it to us today, who like selfish little children (me included) are often unaware of just how precious a gift it is. A little longwinded, perhaps. Worth it? I think so.

If you have any objections to how things are… then find and back representatives who support your views. The responsibility of how things are rests with the people. You, my fellow citizen, and I are responsible for participating in the electoral process. Your power is in you voice, your right to publish, your right to meet peaceably with others… and in how you spend your money. Don’t like ‘oil interests’ running things? Do what you can to avoid buying oil. Sounds stupid, I know, but that is really what there is to do. Find representation that is to your liking. Do the work. Tell others. Exercise your rights. Tell others what you have learned. Vote. Stand firm on the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Demand that all Senators and Representatives live up to thier oath of office to ‘protect and defend the Constitution of the United States’. (of which The Bill of Rights is a part per it’s ratification)

Laws are created, repealed or amended and administered by those representatives that we elect. The Constitution is STILL the Law of the Land in The United States of America. ALL who hold public office or wear a uniform, swear an oath to Uphold, Protect, and Defend the CONSTITUTION. The True Patriots will do all in their power remind those office holders, and all those in uniform to never forget their solemn oath, which cites the essence and singular intended purpose of their entrusted duties.

Thank you, underdog, for putting it all on the line. Thank you for protecting America. Thank you for writing about patriotism and encouraging people to think about it. Thank you for acting from your convictions. I know that, as an officer, you are part of a chain of command and that you follow orders from those of superior rank. But, correctly inform me please, are not ALL public office holders and ALL military officers (including all members in your chain of command, right up to and including the Commander in Chief) obliged to ‘protect, uphold, and defend the Constitution’? You certainly do not follow orders from the citizenry, I know. But, is it not the citizenry for whom the Constitution was created? Isn’t that what the Founders wanted to insure? Aren’t we to hold to the Constitution at all times? (Eternal Vigilance:Jefferson) If we ever arrived at a time when we were tempted to create or follow orders that ran contrary to the written Principles of the Constitution…what might become of America? Isn’t it exactly the principles (In the Constitution) that(you)we continue to fight for and wish other nations would adopt? If we were ever tempted to abandon them for some ‘expediency’, what then? Isn’t the Constitution the very thing that continues to make it possible for individual citizens to create the greatest nation on Earth, comprised of the diversity of Earth’s peoples(E Pluribus Unum). Are not the words and the specific intent of The Constitution what Patriots hold most dear? (Forgive me, once again for my many words. You have expressed in your essay the heart of the matter… in far fewer words than I. I particulary like your first paragraph, America as a child and Patriots it’s parents. America is a process…thank you for contributing to that process. Thank you for indulging my expression in your site.)

yeah… i’m surprised he didn’t do his old trick of making up new words like “persecusation”

some guy at work did that recently in a meeting… i forget what word he transmogrified, but i immediately thought of Bush and had to bite my tongue to not laugh.

How about reading a little history? Start with SIX DAYS OF WAR, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195151747/103-9810236-7592639
Perhaps that will help your limited understanding.

I hear what your saying but can you blame Clinton, everyone knows that he was a fan of putting pressure on between the Bushs’ ( and the room groans out load).
:)